Charles K. Robinson - "Does God Suffer, Too?" (June 3, 1979)

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Voiceover	Duke University Chapel,	0:04
	Service of Worship,	0:05
	June 3rd, 1979.	0:06
	(orchestra music)	0:11
	♪ "Oh Jesus Christ--" ♪	10:41
	(choir singing)	10:43
	(orchestra music)	11:22
	(choir singing)	11:54
	(orchestra music)	14:13
Priest	Let the wicked forsake his way,	14:35
	and the unrighteous his thoughts.	14:39
	And let that person return to the lord.	14:42
	If we confess our sins, god is faithful and just	14:46
	He will cleanse us	14:51
	and give us a new heart	14:52
	and a new beginning.	14:54
	Let us pray together.	14:56
	Almighty and most merciful Lord our God.	15:00
	We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep.	15:05
	We have followed too much the devices	15:10
	and desires of our own hearts.	15:13
	We have offended against thy holy laws.	15:15
	We have left undone those things	15:19
	which we ought to have done;	15:22
	And we have done those things	15:24
	which we ought not to have done.	15:26
	But thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us.	15:29
	Spare thou those, O God, who confess their faults.	15:33
	Restore thou those who are penitent;	15:38
	According to thy promises	15:41
	declared unto mankind in Christ Jesus our Lord.	15:43
	And grant, O most merciful God, for his sake,	15:48
	That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous,	15:53
	and sober life,	15:58
	To the glory of thy holy Name.	15:59
	Amen.	16:03
	The Lord redeems the life of his servants.	16:20
	None of those who take refuge will be condemned.	16:24
	Fellow disciples of Christ,	16:28
	I declare and assure you that through him we are forgiven.	16:31
	Praise be to God.	16:37
	Amen.	16:39
	Let us pray.	17:03
	God, you who make the blind see and the lame walk,	17:07
	and who free those who are in prison.	17:12
	Empower us with your word	17:16
	so that we may be delivered from blindness from prejudice	17:19
	and evil habits.	17:24
	The fear of other persons	17:26
	and from every kind of bondage.	17:28
	Enable us to hear and be transformed for your sake.	17:32
	Amen.	17:37
	The Old Testament reading this morning	17:40
	comes to us from the book of Exodus,	17:42
	the third chapter beginning with the first verse.	17:46
	Now Moses was keeping the flock	17:53
	of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian.	17:55
	And he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness	17:58
	and came to Horeb, the mountain of God.	17:59
	And the angel of the Lord appeared to him	18:00
	in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush.	18:02
	He looked, and behold, the bush was burning,	18:03
	yet it was not consumed.	18:04
	And Moses said, "I will turn aside and see this great sight,	18:20
	why the bush is not burnt."	18:25
	When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see,	18:29
	God called to him out of the bush, "Moses, Moses!"	18:33
	And he said, "Here am I."	18:39
	Then he said, "Do not come near,	18:43
	put off your shoes from your feet,	18:47
	for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."	18:49
	And he said, "I am the God of your father,	18:53
	the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."	18:57
	And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.	19:03
	Then the Lord said, "I have seen the affliction	19:09
	of my people who are in Egypt	19:13
	and I have heard their cry because of their taskmasters.	19:16
	I know their sufferings,	19:20
	and I have come down to deliver them.	19:22
	The reading from the Episol	19:29
	comes from the letter to the Hebrews,	19:32
	the second chapter, the 10th verse.	19:36
	For it was fitting that he for whom	19:41
	and by whom all things exist,	19:44
	in bringing many sons to glory,	19:47
	should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect	19:50
	through suffering.	19:54
	May God give us understanding to this, his word.	19:56
	(orchestra music)	20:04
	(choir singing)	20:34
	Will the congregation rise for the reading of the Gospel.	23:10
	The Gospel reading comes from the 9th Chapter of Luke,	23:22
	beginning with the 18th verse.	23:26
	Now it happened that as he was praying alone,	23:30
	the discipals were with him	23:32
	And he asked them, "Who do the people say that I am?"	23:35
	And they answered, "John the Baptist.	23:40
	But others say, Elijah, and others,	23:44
	that one of the prophets of old has risen."	23:47
	And he said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"	23:50
	And Peter answered, "The Christ of God."	23:54
	But he charged and commanded them to tell this to no one,	23:59
	saying, "The Son of Man must suffer many things	24:02
	and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes,	24:08
	and be killed, and on the third day be raised."	24:14
	Amen.	24:20
	(orchestra music)	24:26
	(choir singing)
Priest	Let us pray.	25:39
	Let the words of my mouth	25:46
	and the meditations of our hearts	25:49
	be acceptable in by sight.	25:53
	O Lord, our strength and our redeemer.	25:58
	Amen.	26:02
	Suffering is a reality -	26:14
	a rather wide spread reality.	26:19
	Suffering is a mystery -	26:26
-	a rather profound mystery.	26:34
	Whatever the meaning of Christian faith may be,	26:42
	it is clear that Christian faith,	26:48
	in some manner,	26:52
	has something to do with suffering.	26:55
	And that fact is clear to Christian faith,	27:03
	if, for no other reason,	27:05
	because the one whom Christians acknowledge	27:08
	as Lord and Savior,	27:14
	was a person who did suffer.	27:17
	The Epistle text this morning	27:30
	suggests that	27:35
	something about the nature of God	27:39
	makes it appropriate that,	27:46
	when the Messiah finally came,	27:48
	the one who was to bring and did bring salvation,	27:54
	that indeed, that Messiah must suffer.	28:00
	The text from Hebrews affirms that	28:06
	it was fitting,	28:09
	that it's somehow appropriate,	28:11
	was fitting,	28:12
	that he,	28:14
	he, meaning the only living God,	28:16
	for whom and by whom all things exist,	28:20
	that he, that only God	28:25
	should make the pioneer of salvation	28:27
	perfect through suffering.	28:32
	That verse by itself does not tell us	28:42
	all that was in the mind of the author of this Epistle.	28:44
	But it does make it clear that the author	28:49
	is telling us that if we want to have	28:51
	some understanding	28:54
	of why it is	29:02
	that God's very own Messiah	29:06
	had to suffer.	29:10
	That we need to examine	29:18
	our understanding of God.	29:21
	In short, that already in the Old Testament,	29:27
	sensitively understood,	29:31
	there were also, there already be	29:34
	some clues, some glimmers about the nature of God	29:36
	that suggest why it would indeed be fitting	29:42
	that the God of the Old Testament,	29:48
	the God of the Hebrew people,	29:50
	the God of all creation,	29:52
	would need to make his own Messiah	29:55
	perfect through suffering.	30:00
	And indeed, a few passages in the scriptures of Israel,	30:07
	a few passages in the Old Testament,	30:11
	are more central to biblical faith,	30:16
	both Jewish and Christian,	30:21
	than the passage that was read in our hearing this morning.	30:24
	God says to Moses:	30:34
	"I have seen	30:41
	the affliction of my people.	30:44
	"I have heard their cry.	30:52
	I know their sufferings,	31:00
	and I have come down to deliver."	31:08
	The God of the Old Testament,	31:18
	the God of Israel,	31:22
	the God of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob,	31:24
	and of Moses	31:29
	is a God who is aware	31:33
	that there is suffering in the world.	31:37
	A God who hears.	31:44
	A God who sees.	31:49
	And when our biblical text says,	31:57
	as it often does in the Old Testament,	32:00
	"I know their sufferings,"	32:04
	I remind you, that the word - "know" -	32:06
	used in that way,	32:11
	does not simply mean that God is aware of the fact that,	32:12
	does not simply mean that God has computerized	32:19
	all of the information.	32:23
	No, this verb "to know"	32:25
	is the same verb that is used in such a passage	32:28
	as "So-and-so knew his wife,	32:31
	and she conceived and bore a child."	32:34
	To know in this Hebraic sense	32:38
	does not just mean abstract knowledge.	32:43
	It means to know through experience,	32:46
	to know through relationship,	32:51
	to know intimately.	32:53
	When God says to Moses,	32:59
	"I know	33:05
	your sufferings."	33:10
	It means that God experiences those sufferings	33:18
	as God's own.	33:21
	That God shares in suffering.	33:25
	That God is willing to participate	33:33
	intimately, inwardly, experientially,	33:41
	in the sufferings of God's creatures.	33:45
	This basic text	33:56
	from Exodus	34:01
	and many, many other passages in scriptures of Israel,	34:07
	suggest to us,	34:13
	proclaim to us,	34:17
	an odd God.	34:23
	One might think, if one were to think about it,	34:29
	that God would not want to,	34:34
	certainly would not need to	34:40
	be concerned about the sufferings of God's creatures,	34:46
	that God would not have to share in suffering.	34:52
	After all, God is the most high, exalted above all,	34:57
	blessed forever.	35:03
	Yes, the biblical view of God is an odd view,	35:16
	a view that does not claim to have been discovered	35:21
	by human reasoning powers;	35:24
	a view that did not come into human history	35:28
	as the result of philosophy or science.	35:30
	Rather, a view of God that came into human history,	35:37
	claiming to have been revealed,	35:45
	disclosed by God.	35:49
	A surprising view of God -	35:56
	as a God who knows,	36:00
	a God who cares,	36:04
	a God who,	36:08
	even though he is the blessed most high God,	36:12
	who comes down to share in human life,	36:14
	even in human suffering,	36:20
	a God who comes down to deliver.	36:22
	The biblical view of God,	36:34
	whether it's right or whether it's wrong,	36:39
	hmm,	36:43
	at least one point is clear:	36:44
	the biblical view of God,	36:47
	right or wrong,	36:49
	is simply the view of a God who,	36:51
	though one would think God did not need to,	36:55
	a God who	36:58
	shares in the sufferings of God's creatures.	37:03
	A God who, being God,	37:09
	suffers,	37:14
	and indeed suffers more than any creature as a creature	37:16
	can suffer.	37:21
	A God who shares in human suffering	37:25
	and who does that for a purpose:	37:32
	In order that he may deliver,	37:41
	in order that he may help,	37:46
	in order that he may keep,	37:49
	in order that he may save.	37:55
	A God who takes on	38:02
	the burden	38:05
	of God's own creation.	38:11
	Now, we could say all of these things differently	38:18
	and more briefly	38:21
	by saying that	38:27
	the God of the Bible	38:31
	is a God of love.	38:36
	The trouble with that word, though,	38:51
	is that it gets kicked around in so many different ways.	38:54
	But God's love is a love	39:09
	that is willing to share	39:13
	the suffering of others	39:17
	in order to help.	39:22
	God's love is different than any ordinary human life.	39:33
	If anyone thinks	39:43
	that one can love	39:50
	without being willing to suffer,	39:56
	one is under a strange delusion.	40:01
	Even God apparently cannot love	40:06
	and love effectively	40:09
	without being willing to suffer.	40:11
	And love is what it is all about.	40:21
	Love is why we are here.	40:26
	It was love that moved God to bring us into existence	40:30
	in the first place.	40:36
	It is God's love that sustains our lives.	40:39
	It is God's love that endeavors to move us out	40:44
	in sharing God's compassion for others.	40:52
	Love is the purpose of our lives.	40:57
	Love is the goal toward which we are moving.	41:01
	Love is our future	41:05
	even beyond this life.	41:07
	The central reality of all reality,	41:17
	on earth and in heaven is	41:25
	despite	41:31
	overwhelming suffering and evil	41:36
	on all sides.	41:40
	The central reality of all reality	41:43
	is the reality of God's love.	41:46
	And the central movement of biblical faith,	41:55
	Old or New Testament,	41:59
	lies in the acknowledgement that the ultimate reality	42:04
	is an overwhelming,	42:09
	gentle,	42:13
	persuasive,	42:15
	caring,	42:17
	suffering	42:19
	love.	42:20
	In the familiar Gospel text this morning,	42:30
	after Peter acknowledges	42:36
	that Jesus	42:39
	is indeed the Christ, the Messiah,	42:43
	Jesus immediately begins to cry,	42:49
	to teach his own disciples	42:55
	the shocking truth that	43:00
	the Son of Man must suffer.	43:02
	The Messiah had to suffer because the Messiah	43:13
	is God's Messiah	43:17
	and because God loves	43:19
	and because God's love means that God	43:21
	must share in our sufferings.	43:28
	And so indeed, when the Messiah finally came,	43:34
	on the issue of suffering,	43:38
	it was not that the Messiah suffered less	43:40
	than other people,	43:47
	but rather that the Messiah suffered	43:51
	more deeply and profoundly	43:53
	than other people -	43:57
	a suffering beyond language.	44:01
	As we think back about the words of God to Moses,	44:12
	we may ask ourselves,	44:20
	Are we, in any measure all,	44:26
	like the God of the Bible?"	44:30
	Are we willing to see	44:36
	the affliction of people?	44:42
	Are we able to hear their cries?	44:49
	Can we bear the burden	45:02
	of knowing their sufferings	45:06
	in order to cry to help?	45:14
	In an important sense,	45:21
	the answer to that question is "No."	45:22
	But more importantly,	45:29
	there is a power	45:37
	that is not our power.	45:42
	There is a power that is God's power.	45:46
	There is a power that is made perfect	45:53
	in weakness.	46:00
	There is a power	46:04
	that made the Messiah,	46:08
	the pioneer of salvation,	46:13
	perfect through suffering,	46:17
	and that power is a love beyond all human imagination,	46:22
	and that power is offered to us moment by moment,	46:26
	if and insofar as we are willing	46:33
	to accept it.	46:36
	A power that can open our eyes,	46:43
	and open our ears, and open our knowing	46:47
	to somebody else's suffering beside my own.	46:51
	And a power that will lead us through suffering	46:58
	into a joy beyond all comparison.	47:05
	In the name of the Father,	47:13
	and of the Son,	47:14
	and of the Holy Spirit,	47:15
	Amen.	47:18
	(orchestra music)	47:28
	(choir singing)
Priest	Let us affirm what we believe.	49:38
	We believe in God	49:42
	who has created and is creating,	49:44
	who has come in the truly human Jesus,	49:47
	to reconcile and make new,	49:51
	who works in us and others by the spirit.	49:54
	We trust God	49:58
	who calls us to be the church,	50:00
	to celebrate life and it's fullness,	50:03
	to love and serve others,	50:06
	to seek justice and resit,	50:09
	to proclaim Jesus,	50:13
	Crucified and risen,	50:15
	our judge and our hope,	50:17
	in life, in death, in life beyond death,	50:20
	God is with us.	50:25
	We are not alone.	50:27
	Thanks be to God.	50:29
	You may be seated.	50:33
	We welcome you to the Service of Worship	50:43
	at the Duke Chapel.	50:46
	Following the service of worship,	50:48
	there will be a short celebration of communion	50:49
	in Memorial Chapel, left here.	50:53
	The lord be with you.	51:00
	Let us pray.	51:04
	O God our help in ages past,	51:09
	we thank you for caring for people so much,	51:13
	that you gave your son to show us the way	51:17
	that life should be lived.	51:20
	And to assure us that you love us.	51:22
	Empower us, we pray with your spirit.	51:26
	Enable us to be healers, reconcilers,	51:31
	and servants of your children in need.	51:34
	As we attempt to solve our own personal and family problems,	51:38
	in this new era of scarcity.	51:43
	Keep reminding us that we are the ones,	51:47
	to whom so much has been given.	51:50
	And that ingratitude we should give of ourselves,	51:53
	enthusiastically and generously.	51:57
	Give us the courage to resist the insidious propaganda	52:02
	of this idolatrous age.	52:07
	Remind us that better things	52:10
	do not necessarily make better living.	52:12
	That a persons worth is not to be measured	52:17
	by the property he owns, nor by the job she holds.	52:19
	That our purpose in life is not to grab	52:26
	all the gusto we can get.	52:28
	That we have no alienable right	52:31
	to continue consuming much more than our fair share	52:34
	of the earths dwindling resources.	52:38
	Help us to let go,	52:42
	to step down,	52:45
	to live more simply,	52:47
	and yet, more abundantly.	52:49
	By relying on your power.	52:52
	By accepting the love which you freely give.	52:55
	For the sick and the lonely.	53:00
	For the bereaved and the depressed.	53:03
	For the hungry and the poor.	53:06
	For those who this minute are being tortured	53:09
	for what they believe is right and good.	53:13
	For those so so weary that they know not how to pray.	53:17
	Lord help us to pray now as Jesus taught us saying,	53:22
	Our father who art in heaven,	53:27
	hallowed be thy name.	53:31
	Thy kingdom come.	53:33
	Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.	53:35
	Give us this day our daily bread;	53:40
	and forgive us our trespasses,	53:43
	as we forgive those who trespass against us;	53:46
	and lead us not into temptation,	53:49
	but deliver us from evil.	53:52
	For thine is the Kingdom,	53:56
	and the power, and the glory forever.	53:57
	Amen.	54:02
	(orchestra playing)	54:11
	(choir singing)	55:30
	(orchestra playing)	58:01
	(choir singing)	59:03
	Lord God we thank you for all things that are good.	1:00:10
	We return a small portion of your bounty to you.	1:00:15
	That your work may be done in this place	1:00:19
	and in the farther community.	1:00:22
	May we always remember	1:00:25
	that only by your power	1:00:27
	do we live and are we able to serve you.	1:00:29
	Amen.	1:00:33
	(orchestra music)	1:00:35
	(choir singing)	1:01:06
	May the love of God the father,	1:04:48
	the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,	1:04:50
	the fellowship of the holy spirit,	1:04:53
	be and abide with you,	1:04:55
	now and forever.	1:04:57
	Amen.	1:04:59
	(choir singing)	1:05:10
	(orchestra music)	1:06:04

Item Info

Title:

Charles K. Robinson - "Does God Suffer, Too?" (June 3, 1979)

Description:

Sermon start time: (Part 1) 26:14. Sermon end time: (Part 1) 47:19.
Robinson proclaims a God who shares in the sufferings of creatures in order to deliver and save and calls the listeners to be attuned to the cries and sufferings of those around them. (Abstract created by Duke Divinity School staff.)
Key quotation: "This basic text from Exodus and many, many other passages in scriptures of Israel, suggest to us, proclaim to us, an odd God. One might think, if one were to think about it, that God would not want to, certainly would not need to be concerned about the sufferings of God's creatures, that God would not have to share in suffering. After all, God is the most high, exalted above all, blessed forever. Yes, the biblical view of God is an odd view, a view that does not claim to have been discovered by human reasoning powers; a view that did not come into human history as the result of philosophy or science. Rather, a view of God that came into human history, claiming to have been revealed, disclosed by God. A surprising view of God - as a God who knows, a God who cares, a God who, even though he is the blessed most high God, who comes down to share in human life, even in human suffering, a God who comes down to deliver. The biblical view of God, whether it's right or whether it's wrong, hmm, at least one point is clear: the biblical view of God, right or wrong, is simply the view of a God who, though one would think God did not need to, a God who shares in the sufferings of God's creatures."

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4s46hn2j

Date:

June 3, 1979

Speaker:

Robinson, Charles K.

Liturgical Calendar:

Ordinary Time

Biblical Book:

Chapter and Verse:

Subject:

Contributor:

Duke University. Chapel

Identifier:

UA.17.01.0003 RR-1029
ref7267_lgm
uachapelsermaud
duke:320425
dcrau001909
ark:/87924/r4s46hn2j
6e27598d-addc-4c07-b703-503b807a73c2

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Duke Chapel Recordings

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Duke University Chapel recordings

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English

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United States
North Carolina
Durham (N.C.)

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Provenance:

The Duke University Chapel Recordings were transferred to the Duke University Archives beginning in 1970.

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Educational Use Permitted

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