William H. Willimon - "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" (May 17, 1987)

Download
- Rights
- Limited Re-Use
  CC BY-NC 4.0
  More Rights Info
- Files (1)
- MP4
- Please be patient with media downloads. They are often large files.
Share

Embed Code
<iframe src='//idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r41r6nf79?embed=true' height='500px' width='100%' frameborder='0' marginwidth='0' marginheight='0' scrolling='no' allowfullscreen></iframe>
Permalink

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r41r6nf79
Skip to Item Info

Loading the media player...

Files for this Item

Transcript

Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.

	(choir singing)	0:00
	(organ music)	1:36
	(choir singing)	1:45
	(organ music)	4:02
-	Good morning and welcome to Duke chapel.	4:55
	Our preacher this morning was to have been the reverent	4:59
	Dr. Wallace Kirby.	5:03
	Unfortunately we are grieved by the death	5:06
	of Dr. Kirby's wife Sally this past week	5:09
	and he will not be our preacher today.	5:12
	But our sympathy is offered to Dr. Kirby and to his family.	5:16
	We have been prepared for worship by the voices	5:22
	of the Wilmington boy choir under the direction	5:27
	of Mr. David Hines and we welcome them back again	5:29
	to the chapel and are thankful for the music,	5:33
	that they bring to us today.	5:36
	Also we welcome those in the rooms of Duke hospitals,	5:38
	who worship with us today by the close circuit television.	5:42
	We're glad, that you're here and now let us fill	5:47
	this great church with the praise of God.	5:51
	(organ music)	5:57
	(choir singing)	6:34
	Almighty God, be among us during this service of worship,	9:19
	so that our spirits might be renews and drawn toward you.	9:25
	That our lives might be refreshed by your presence,	9:31
	so that we might go forth from this time of worship,	9:35
	prayer and praise to serve you in gladness and faithfulness	9:39
	all our days, amen, be seated.	9:44
-	Let us pray.	10:03
	Open our hearts and minds, oh, God by the power	10:08
	of your holy spirit, so that as the word is read	10:12
	and proclaimed, we might hear with joy what you say to us	10:17
	this day, amen.	10:22
	The first lesson is taken from Ax.	10:28
	But he full of the holy spirit gazed into heaven	10:33
	and saw the glory of God.	10:39
	And Jesus standing at the right hand of God,	10:43
	and he said, behold, I see the heavens opened	10:48
	and the son of man standing at the right hand of God.	10:52
	But they cried out with their loud voice	10:58
	and stopped their ears, and rushed together upon him.	11:02
	Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him,	11:08
	and the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet	11:12
	of a young man named Saul.	11:16
	And as they were stoning Steven, he prayed.	11:21
	Lord Jesus receive my spirit.	11:25
	And he knelt down and cried in a loud voice.	11:30
	Lord, do not hold this sin against them.	11:34
	And when he had said this, he fell asleep.	11:40
	This ends the reading of the first lesson.	11:45
	Please stand for the reading of this altar.	11:51
	Rejoice in the Lord, oh, you righteous.	12:05
	For the word of the Lord is upright.	12:12
	He loves righteousness and justice.	12:19
	By the word of the Lord, the heavens were made.	12:28
	Let all the earth fear the Lord.	12:36
	For he spoke and it came to be.	12:44
	The Lord brings the council of the nations to not.	12:51
	The council of the Lord stands forever.	13:00
	Blessed is the nation, who's God is the Lord.	13:08
	The Lord looks down from heaven,	13:17
	he sees all the sons of men.	13:20
	He, who fashions the hearts of the them all.	13:31
	Our soul waits for the Lord.	13:37
	Yay our heart is glad in him.	13:44
	Let thy steadfast love, oh, Lord, be upon us.	13:51
	(organ music)	13:58
	(choir singing)	14:07
	Please, be seated.	14:58
	(organ music)	15:07
	(choir singing)	16:16
	(organ music)	19:39
	(organ music)	20:09
-	I think I remember learning in freshman philosophy,	21:04
	that philosophy consists of	21:08
	mainly two types of questions.	21:12
	A.) Questions	21:16
	to which everybody already knows the answers, and B.)	21:20
	questions to which nobody has ever known the answers.	21:24
	Of course that's bad, if you're a student	21:29
	in a philosophy class, but I suppose it's good,	21:32
	if you're a professor of philosophy.	21:35
	I know that's one reason I enjoy teaching theology,	21:38
	because theology is a lot like philosophy in,	21:41
	that theology tends to deal with questions,	21:46
	that are unanswerable.	21:50
	Of course, that's bad, if you're a student of theology,	21:54
	but it can be good if you're a professor.	21:56
	Student comes back after the exam to your office and says,	21:59
	why did I get a C on the exam, I answered the question?	22:05
	And you can say, oh, but you didn't explore	22:09
	the deeper existential dimensions,	22:12
	the wider phenomenological applications.	22:15
	Then, when the student leaves your office,	22:19
	ricocheting off the furniture, wandering, muttering	22:20
	to himself as he goes down the hall, you know,	22:23
	I really did very well to get a C on that exam.	22:25
	I didn't answer the question.	22:28
	But I'll tell you this, not only religion, but also life,	22:34
	life puts a lot of unanswerable questions towards you.	22:39
	And I've noticed it, when we don't get answers	22:47
	we're apt to get cynical.	22:51
	It's tough to be faced with situations	22:56
	in which there seems to be no easy answer.	22:59
	And maybe you came to church this morning seeking,	23:05
	even though you may not have known you're seeking, answers.	23:08
	We were standing in the hall,	23:16
	her child had just been struck down by rare	23:20
	and often fatal illness,	23:23
	and standing there in those antiseptic cold corridors	23:26
	of the hospital, she grabbed hold of my lapel	23:29
	and she said, tell me, preacher, what did my little boy do	23:32
	to deserve this?	23:37
	What did we do to deserve this?	23:39
	And I was silent.	23:46
	I don't know what you think about the comparatively	23:50
	rare phenomenon of a speechless preacher,	23:53
	but at least,	23:58
	at least give me credit, that I was not as severe on her	24:01
	as Jesus might have been.	24:04
	For who can explain the behavior of Jesus	24:09
	in today's scripture from Luke.	24:12
	Listen to the gospel.	24:16
	There were some present at that very time,	24:20
	who told him of the Galileans, whose blood Pilate	24:23
	had mingled with their sacrifices.	24:26
	And Jesus answered them, do you think,	24:30
	that those Galileans were worse sinners,	24:33
	than all the other Galileans, because they suffered thus?	24:36
	I tell you, no, but unless you repent,	24:42
	you will all likewise perish.	24:46
	Or those 18 upon whom the tower of Siloam fell	24:50
	and killed them, do you think they were worse offenders,	24:54
	than all the others, who dwelt in Jerusalem?	24:57
	I tell you, no.	25:01
	But unless you repent, you will likewise perish.	25:03
	Who can explain Jesus' words in this little episode?	25:13
	They come at Jesus with two instances.	25:18
	How about all those Galileans whom Pilate put to the sword	25:22
	right up at the altar of the temple?	25:27
	And what did they do to deserve such fate?	25:31
	Are those Jerusalemites on whom the tower of Siloam fell	25:37
	and crushed to death, what did they do to deserve this?	25:41
	And Jesus,	25:47
	so sensitive to every area of human need replies,	25:49
	I tell you, unless you repent, you will likewise perish.	25:55
	In their instances, they have about covered the water front	26:04
	of human tragedy, the Galileans were outsiders,	26:07
	the Jerusalemites were insiders.	26:11
	The Galileans perished at the hands of a political tyrant	26:14
	among the millions, who have died at the hands	26:18
	of cruel and oppressive governments.	26:21
	The Jerusalemites, on the other hand, were those,	26:24
	who perished through natural disaster, among the millions,	26:27
	who have perished in earthquake, wind and fire,	26:31
	what did they do to deserve this?	26:34
	It's a wonderfully philosophical dilemma.	26:40
	This is what philosophy does much of the time,	26:43
	it's called theodicy, theodicy, meaning from the Greek	26:46
	the ways of God, justifying the ways of God to humanity.	26:50
	How can God be kind and loving and still allow things	26:56
	like this to happen in a purportedly good world?	27:01
	No offense, pastor, she said to me,	27:08
	but I am just too offended by the thousands	27:13
	who die of famine and the tragedy of war to believe in a God	27:17
	who could let things like that happen.	27:23
	In other words, she was just too theologically sensitive	27:26
	to believe in God.	27:31
	The best selling book on university campuses	27:35
	a couple of years ago was rabbi Harold Kushner's	27:39
	When Bad Things Happen to Good People.	27:43
	Thousands perish by famine in Africa or in earthquake	27:46
	in Mexico or in a ball of flame over Cape Kennedy.	27:52
	How can God be good and still allow things	27:56
	like that to happen?	27:59
	Oh, Lord, why hast thou forsaken me, cries the psalmist?	28:02
	Now, as interesting as we may find such deep questions,	28:10
	let us note in today's scripture, that Jesus	28:16
	does not seem to be interested in such questions.	28:21
	First, Jesus lumps all violence and all suffering together,	28:26
	whether it's caused by natural calamity	28:31
	or human perversity, it doesn't seem	28:34
	to make much difference.	28:37
	Evil is evil, pain is pain, hurt is hurt,	28:39
	however it comes upon us.	28:42
	Worse, the professor in me notes, that Jesus fails	28:45
	to answer the question, I remind you,	28:49
	the exam questions were, number one,	28:52
	what did those poor Galileans do to deserve	28:55
	being slaughtered by Pilate?	28:58
	And question number two, why were those Jerusalemites	29:01
	in the wrong place at the wrong time,	29:05
	when the tower fell?	29:08
	And to these perfectly good philosophical questions	29:12
	Jesus responds:	29:17
	Do you think these Galileans were worse sinners,	29:21
	than all the others because they suffered this?	29:25
	I tell you, no, but unless you repent,	29:29
	you will, likewise, perish.	29:32
	Now, maybe you're saying, of course, Jesus uneducated Jew,	29:37
	that he was just wasn't too good at philosophy,	29:40
	he had never had the benefit of higher education.	29:43
	You remember that when asked on another question,	29:47
	another occasion, a similar question about theodicy,	29:49
	Jesus responds, well,	29:54
	God makes his sun to shine upon the good and the bad,	29:59
	he causes his rain to fall upon the just and the unjust.	30:02
	That's all, the theodicy you get in Jesus.	30:09
	The good and the bad get sun and they get rain,	30:13
	that's just the way it is.	30:17
	You remember elsewhere, the disciples came to Jesus	30:22
	and asked, rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents,	30:26
	that he was so unfortunate to be born blind?	30:30
	Surely, rabbi, there is some reason, there is some direct	30:36
	correlation between what you do in life	30:39
	and what happens to you in life.	30:42
	Between the good that you do in life	30:44
	and the good that comes your way, or the bad you do in life	30:46
	and the bad that comes your way.	30:48
	It's in the Bible, the psalmist says,	30:54
	I have never seen a righteous man's children	30:57
	go begging for bread, that just doesn't happen	31:00
	in Bible believing homes.	31:04
	Blessed is the one	31:09
	who walks not in the way of sinners,	31:13
	everything he does prospers.	31:17
	You can find that.	31:21
	But it seems that Jesus denies that there is a direct	31:24
	correlation between the good or the bad that we do	31:28
	and what happens to us in life.	31:33
	Still, the idea persists that there is a direct	31:36
	relationship between what I do and what happens to me.	31:39
	I am suffering, why did I, what did I do	31:43
	to deserve this suffering?	31:46
	I know that many of you have read Thornton Wilder's	31:50
	classic little novel the Bridge of San Luis Rey.	31:52
	It's a story about a little village in South America	31:57
	and every day the villagers would go across this bridge,	31:59
	over this great chasm and they would go across this bridge	32:03
	to go out into the fields to work.	32:06
	One day, without warning, the bridge snapped	32:10
	and six villagers fell to their deaths.	32:14
	There was a priest in the village who said,	32:19
	aha, now I'm going to do research on those six people's	32:23
	lives and I will, I will find out why they happened	32:28
	to be on that bridge when it broke.	32:32
	And I'll be able to show my flock that there is a direct	32:35
	relationship between the good that you do	32:38
	and the good that happens to you in life, or the bad	32:40
	that you do and the bad that happens to you.	32:43
	He did research on every aspect of their lives,	32:46
	and he came to the stunning conclusion	32:52
	that those six people on that bridge that day	32:56
	were no better, and certainly no worse,	32:58
	than anybody else in town.	33:02
	Still, the idea persists.	33:07
	Still, the idea persists.	33:10
	Students being interviewed at a church school	33:14
	after the disaster of the space shuttle	33:17
	said, I don't know why God did this, I guess he just	33:22
	wanted this whole thing to end now.	33:27
	No.	33:31
	No, Jesus was right, you can look at life and you can tell	33:34
	that God really does let sun to shine upon the good	33:38
	and the bad, and rain to fall up on the heads	33:41
	of the just and unjust. There is this kind	33:43
	of randomness to life.	33:46
	And I bet you can take that, you're all grown up,	33:50
	adult, mature people and I bet you can take that.	33:54
	Rabbi Kushner calls it luck. Life is like a kind	33:56
	of roulette wheel, there's just good things	34:00
	that happen to you in life and bad things	34:01
	that happen to you, and when the wheel goes around	34:03
	and your number, it's just luck, there's good luck,	34:05
	there's bad luck.	34:09
	The sun shines, the rain falls,	34:11
	there's a kind of randomness.	34:14
	It takes some courage to live life that way, I suppose,	34:19
	but we can take it, we're all grown up.	34:24
	Now, unfortunately, as attractive as such philosophizing	34:30
	may be, let us note that it has absolutely nothing	34:35
	to do with today's scripture.	34:39
	Jesus says, when presented with two excellent examples	34:42
	of life's unfairness, Jesus's reply was not that	34:48
	of rabbi Kushner.	34:54
	Well, you got good luck, you got bad luck,	34:56
	things just happen to you in life,	34:59
	you gotta learn to take it.	35:00
	Which is what I might've said.	35:03
	Rather, Jesus says,	35:07
	and this is what strikes me about the text.	35:11
	Jesus says, do you think you were worse sinners	35:14
	than those poor people, who perished thus?	35:19
	I tell you, unless you repent, you will likewise perish.	35:23
	Now, I want you to picture this.	35:33
	I arrive breathless at the hospital.	35:37
	I run down the hall, and I encounter a little throng	35:40
	of family and friends leaning on one another,	35:43
	eyes filled with terror and grief.	35:46
	Is she still alive, yes, but she's been injured badly.	35:52
	There's been some damage, we don't know how much.	35:55
	And then as we stand out there in the hall of the hospital,	36:00
	the questions start to come.	36:03
	Was she driving too fast for conditions?	36:07
	Maybe she had her mind on something else	36:11
	when she got to that intersection?	36:13
	Was she wearing seatbelts?	36:16
	And I, as Jesus' field representative, in charge	36:20
	of the branch office, I say,	36:24
	Do you think that she was a worse offender than you?	36:29
	You will likewise perish.	36:34
	Repent.	36:37
	It's a strange episode,	36:41
	but I think Jesus wants us academic, mature,	36:45
	sophisticated people to take note.	36:47
	Jesus knows how sometimes our questions can deter us	36:50
	from "the" question.	36:55
	"The" question, it seems for Jesus, is not about life's	37:00
	unfairness, that's what preoccupies us.	37:05
	How can bad things happen to good people like me?	37:09
	"The" question,	37:15
	"the" question is, for Jesus,	37:19
	how do I stand in my relationship to God?	37:24
	I think, that When Bad Things Happen to Good People	37:34
	was the bestseller, not only because it is written so well,	37:37
	but because it does flatter our self-pitying,	37:42
	narcissistic age.	37:47
	For us, any suffering is unfair	37:50
	and unjustified, any confusion, any tragedy	37:53
	or unknowing, because we have stopped worshiping a God	37:58
	whose presence makes tragedy bearable.	38:02
	They ask Jesus about justice, about life's unfairness,	38:06
	but he wouldn't answer.	38:10
	Rather he forced them to examine	38:14
	their own relationship with God.	38:16
	But you see, we don't want God, we want answers.	38:21
	And I tell you this, God's answers	38:25
	had better not be too mysterious or confusing,	38:27
	because we can sure find a god	38:29
	that can provide us easier answers.	38:31
	Why did this happen to me?	38:42
	A lot of times it's for no good reason.	38:46
	Bad things happen to good people	38:50
	and bad people all the time.	38:53
	The notion that only good things happen to good people	38:58
	was put to death when they hung Jesus on a cross.	39:05
	When a cruel tyrant swings a sword,	39:12
	anyone standing close by is going to be hurt.	39:16
	When nature goes awry in disease or earthquake,	39:20
	everybody will pay, the good and the bad.	39:26
	But now that same Jesus,	39:32
	whom that same cruel tyrant hung up on a cross to die,	39:35
	that same Jesus takes our question--why do bad things	39:40
	happen to good me?--	39:45
	and he makes it cruciform.	39:49
	Here is the question:	39:56
	Can you trust God	40:00
	to be your God	40:05
	in your joy	40:10
	and in your pain?	40:13
	That's the question.	40:16
	I had a woman in my church one time, and when her mother	40:19
	became ill she told me, if my mother dies,	40:21
	I will never again play the piano for the church again.	40:25
	Her mother died, and she kept her promise.	40:31
	And I can understand that.	40:35
	But can we also understand Jesus putting to us today	40:40
	the question:	40:44
	Can you love God without linking your love to the cards,	40:47
	that life deals you?	40:52
	It's the question.	40:57
	Because God's love carries no promises about good or bad.	41:01
	Save the promise that God will never let anything	41:10
	worse happen to us	41:12
	than God allowed to happen to his very own son.	41:16
	And so we come to church on a bright May morning,	41:23
	and we meet Jesus,	41:28
	who does not flatter us with a bunch of easy answers	41:31
	but rather gives us something infinitely better, himself.	41:36
	His presence given to us,	41:43
	so that we might go forth in our joy or pain	41:47
	and give ourselves more fully to him.	41:52
	Amen.	42:00
	(organ music).	42:15
	(choir singing)	42:45
	The Lord be with you.	44:57
Audience	And also with you.	44:58
-	Let us pray, be seated.	45:00
	Gracious God,	45:12
	you have awakened faith in us,	45:15
	you have spoken the word of good news to us.	45:18
	In our lives,	45:23
	in gentle days in May,	45:26
	in scripture,	45:30
	in the joyous music of young voices,	45:33
	you have happened to us.	45:36
	When we are honest enough to admit all the ways	45:40
	we fall short in our devotion to you,	45:43
	we become unsure of ourselves,	45:47
	hesitant to approach you in prayer,	45:50
	unworthy, as we are to be called your disciples.	45:55
	And yet we know, that you do care for us,	46:00
	that you long to love us and that you know our needs	46:04
	before we even dare to ask.	46:08
	And so we pray.	46:12
	We pray for those, who mourn or who're in distress.	46:16
	For the crippled,	46:22
	the infirm, the sick and the dying we pray.	46:24
	Illness or grief reminds us of how fragile	46:30
	and therefore how precious your gift of life is.	46:32
	Lord and giver of life,	46:39
	comfort those, who suffer in mind, body or spirit.	46:42
	We pray for those, who have not met with happiness,	46:49
	for whom bright days in May are but a reminder	46:53
	of the emptiness and the bleakness they feel inside.	46:56
	We pray, Lord, for the world	47:03
	and especially for all those, who have been broken	47:06
	or disabled by war.	47:08
	Those, who've been thrown down	47:13
	by the cruelty of other people.	47:15
	We pray for all nations, who are exploited by other nations,	47:19
	for all, who are poor and without advocates,	47:23
	for all, who are despised or ill-treated,	47:27
	because of the color of their skin or their status in life.	47:29
	And we pray, oh, God, because you have commanded us	47:37
	not only for all, who have to suffer such injustice,	47:42
	but also for those, who foster and increase it.	47:48
	You came to us, Lord, even when we failed to come to you,	47:54
	you suffered for us,	48:00
	even as we ask you to exempt us from pain.	48:03
	You cared for us and served us,	48:07
	even when we cared only for ourselves.	48:13
	Therefore we know,	48:18
	that we are able to come to you	48:21
	asking you to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.	48:24
	We come to you asking your blessing	48:30
	upon your often troubled world and upon your people.	48:33
	Hear our prayer, amen.	48:39
	Let us now offer ourselves and our gifts to God,	48:45
	who has offered so much to us.	48:49
	(organ music)	48:54
	(choir singing)	51:38
	(organ music)	54:19
	Let us pray.	56:44
	Almighty and most merciful father, from whom cometh down	56:46
	every good and perfect gift, that enriches our lives,	56:51
	we yield thee praise and thanks for all of thy mercies,	56:55
	thy goodness hath creates us, thy bounty has sustained us.	57:00
	Thy fatherly discipline have chastened us	57:06
	and thy patience hath born with us,	57:10
	so that thy love might redeem us.	57:13
	We thank you for all the days of or lives,	57:17
	that draws ever closer to you in both good times and bad.	57:21
	Give us the heart and the mind to serve you	57:27
	and enable us to show our thankfulness	57:32
	for all of thy goodness and mercy	57:34
	by giving up ourselves into thy service.	57:37
	And cheerfully submitting and all things	57:40
	to thy blessed will.	57:42
	We pray as thou has taught us, our father, who art in heaven	57:45
	hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done	57:51
	on earth as it is in heaven.	57:56
	Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us	57:58
	our trespasses as we forgive those,	58:02
	who trespass against us.	58:05
	And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil,	58:07
	for thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory	58:12
	forever, amen.	58:16
	(organ music)	58:22
	(choir singing)	58:59
	Now, may the grace of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ	1:01:40
	love of God and the fellowship of the holy spirit	1:01:43
	be upon you now and always, amen.	1:01:47
	(organ music)	1:02:02
	(organ music)	1:03:05

Item Info

Title:

William H. Willimon - "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" (May 17, 1987)

Description:

Sermon start time: 21:04. Sermon end time: 42:01.
The preacher names the questioning of those who suffer injustice, and speaks to Jesus’ desire for all people to repent and be reconciled to God. (Abstract created by Duke Divinity School staff.)
Key quotation: “Jesus knows how sometimes our questions can deter us from ‘the’ question. ‘The’ question, it seems for Jesus, is not about life’s fairness…‘the’ question is, for Jesus, how do I stand in my relationship to God?”

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r41r6nf79

Date:

May 17, 1987

Speaker:

Willimon, William H.

Liturgical Calendar:

Ordinary Time

Biblical Book:

Luke

Chapter and Verse:

Luke 13:1-5

Subject:

Contributor:

Duke University. Chapel

Identifier:

UA.17.01.0003 VHS-0032
ref8344_0i3
uachapelsermaud
duke:321352
dcrmv001032
ark:/87924/r41r6nf79
0ec55d5f-4cbb-49fa-93d3-ad2bfe6bbf02

Digital Collection:

Duke Chapel Recordings

Source Collection:

Duke University Chapel recordings

Related Resources:

See below

Language:

English

Location:

United States
North Carolina
Durham (N.C.)

Format:

Provenance:

The Duke University Chapel Recordings were transferred to the Duke University Archives beginning in 1970.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

This recording may contain 3rd party materials, such as music or readings that are therefore not covered by the Creative Commons license indicated here. For more information see https://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/research/citations-and-permissions.

Sponsor:

Sponsor this Digital Collection

William H. Willimon - "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" (May 17, 1987)

Transcript

Item Info

Related Item

Duke University Archives